Bill Barr: Trump 'Is Toast' If Indictment Claims Prove True

The federal indictment that's been handed down against former President Donald Trump means "he is toast" if it proves to be true and he's found guilty, former Attorney General Bill Barr said Sunday.

"If even half of it is true, he is toast," Barr told Fox News Sunday Host Shannon Bream while rejecting claims that the 38-count indictment is a political attack brought to stop Trump's 2024 presidential campaign.

"It's a very detailed indictment, and it's very, very damning," said Barr. "This idea of presenting Trump as a victim here — a victim of a witch hunt — is ridiculous."

The indictment handed down Friday contains several counts alleging Trump violated the federal Espionage Act, as well as charges accusing him of obstruction of justice concerning records that were being kept at his Mar-a-Lago property.

"We can't forget here that this entire thing came about because of the reckless conduct of the president," Barr said. “If he had just turned over the documents, which I think every other person in the country would have done … they’re the government’s documents, they’re official records. They’re not his personal records."

One of the counts against Trump accuses him of allegedly showing classified military documents to a writer while sitting at his Bedminster Club in New Jersey on July 21, 2021, for a recorded interview for an autobiography of his former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and then saying he could have declassified it, but "now I can't."

"Battle plans for an attack on another country or Defense Department documents about our capabilities are in no universe Donald J. Trump's personal documents," Barr told Bream. "They are government's documents."

Barr said he does agree that Trump has been a "victim in the past" of adversaries who "have obsessively pursued him with phony claims."

"I've been at his side defending him against them when he is a victim," said Barr. "But this is much different. He’s not a victim here. He was totally wrong that he had the right to have those documents. Those documents are among the most sensitive secrets that the country has. They have to be in the custody of the archivist. He had no right to maintain them and retain them.”

Trump and his supporters have also argued that other presidents, like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, have removed documents from the White House, but Barr said that's a different situation.

"There are two big lies that are out there right now," said Barr. "Those were situations where they arranged with the archives to set up special space under the management control and security provided by the archivist to temporarily put documents into the libraries where ready."

But, said Barr, "These were not people just putting them in their basements."

It's also "ridiculous" to claim that a president has complete authority to declare any official document as being personal, said Barr.

"That opinion had to do with the distinction between official records, which are records prepared by the government agencies for the purpose of government action, and personal documents as opposed to official documents, or things prepared by the president such as a diary or notes that are not used in government deliberations," said Barr.

But with the items that were being stored at Trump's home, "these are official documents," said Barr. "It's inarguable. The president's daily brief which is provided by the intelligence community is not the president's personal document."

Barr acknowledged that he and Trump have had their problems, and said the former president has been "angry with me for a while."

"I defended the president on 'Russiagate,'" said Barr. "I stood up and called out (Manhattan District Attorney) Alvin Bragg’s politicized hit job. And I have spoken out for 30 years about the abuse of the criminal justice process to influence politics."

But in the case of the federal indictment, Barr said the "government acted responsibly, and it was Donald Trump who acted irresponsibly."