The decision to transfer cluster munitions to Ukraine for its defense against Russia was a "difficult decision the president did not take lightly," but the controversial weapons are needed as "a bridge to getting more normal … unitary artillery shells," Adm. John Kirby told Newsmax on Wednesday.
"They could run out; you could leave them defenseless," Kirby, who serves as coordinator for strategic communications at the National Security Council, explained on "The Record With Greta Van Susteren."
However, when pressed on the point of letting the Ukrainians "run out" of normal artillery, Kirby replied that it is really because the Ukrainians are "involved in some pretty vicious fighting, and they're going through many thousands of rounds of artillery every single day."
"I don't think people really appreciate how much this is a gunfight and how much they are relying on artillery shells every single day, even before the counteroffensive," he said.
Cluster munitions, however, pose a risk to civilians even after a war ends, since they release smaller explosives over wide areas, which can stay unexploded and undetected on the ground for years. Over 120 countries have banned these weapons.
"We're mindful of the potential impact on civilian casualties after the war, which is why we're working very hard with the Ukrainians already on demining efforts," Kirby said. "It's why the Ukrainians have pledged to us that they will use these appropriately. … I'm not trying to mitigate civilian casualties, but the failure rate of the cluster munitions that we’re providing are vastly, vastly smaller, less than 2.5%, than the 30 or 40% dud rate that the Russians are using."
Kirby added that the U.S. hopes to be able to produce enough regular artillery shells in the coming months, to help Ukraine build up its inventory so the cluster munitions become unnecessary.
"I think we can all agree that the risk to Ukrainian civilians is greater if the Ukrainian counteroffensive fails, if they are left defenseless, and they can't continue to claw back territory, than it is by the use of cluster munitions on the battlefield," Kirby said.
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